September 11th - Fake or Real?

[link]

who belives it was george bush that did that to america
i certinally do
there is alot of proof about it to

[Jin]

link said:

who belives it was george bush that did that to america
i certinally do
there is alot of proof about it to

If you are talking about that 9/11 movie that came out not to long ago...then *laughs* That movie is all media twisted, propaganda and lies since the director is liberal as ever. There were articles upon articles about how thta movie wasnt totally true.

But to answer your question, i dont think Bush could have done anything to prevent what happened a couple years ago. And honestly, i think its pointless talking about it

[Wrinkley Ninja]

Yea, this isn't a very good topic to talk about...

[Sephiroth]

i seriously dont think george bush although he is very very stupid would mess up the american economy by blowing up the world trade center i mean he isnt agreeing to the kyoto agreement becoz it will mess up americas economy too much and besides i dont think this is a very nice topic to talk about dude sry but some people coulda lost family members there and its kinda harsh to say there president planned it all

[Tslenia]

I don't agree, with Jin, there has been too much evidence to prove that it was known before those building were hit that it was going to happen. As for stopping it.... it was very possible, but...

A lot of people drop the ball there..though, I will leave that for another day.

As for Link's comment, about Bush being behind it....no way...the man is too brain dead to do that much planning
(Iraq has ties to the people whom blew up the World Trade Center....oosps we're wrong....okayy Iraq has weapon of mass destruction....oosps...none there okay, we now are fighting for their freedom..yeah that will work) ^{and people said that Kerry flip-flops}.

Besides, that is the second time the World Trade Center has been hit. The first time they tried to take if out from the bottom, but that place was design to withstand an earthquake, and thus the first try was a failure.

[link]

i will stop but you ought to searce on line about the evidence i mean why would they put insurence on the twin towers a month before they were blown up (makes them get loads of money)
the structure of the exploision was not like a planes blew up on it but it was like bombs planted on the struteral key points so when the plane hit they blew it up
how was g.w.bush so calm at the school when he was inforemed (i dont belive he went into shock)
the pentagon had a hole through it that looked more like a missile than a plane and the plan to go to war with irak was for money ...the oil it shows that they were after the rich oil there and the sadam bit was a cover up for this

i think so many lives were killed to think the terrorist might have been the president himself a big gigantintic cloak in dagger
i will stop now but i still belive this!

[Jin]

link said:

i will stop but you ought to searce on line about the evidence i mean why would they put insurence on the twin towers a month before they were blown up (makes them get loads of money)
the structure of the exploision was not like a planes blew up on it but it was like bombs planted on the struteral key points so when the plane hit they blew it up
how was g.w.bush so calm at the school when he was inforemed (i dont belive he went into shock)
the pentagon had a hole through it that looked more like a missile than a plane and the plan to go to war with irak was for money ...the oil it shows that they were after the rich oil there and the sadam bit was a cover up for this

i think so many lives were killed to think the terrorist might have been the president himself a big gigantintic cloak in dagger
i will stop now but i still belive this!

We will never get answers to these questions, and like i said before, it is pointless talking about it. That is all government business. But do you know what i think is absurd? Is that people assume that Bush purposely didn’t do NOTHING to stop the terrorist attacks. He obviously wouldn't just let the lives of Americans wiped out unless there was a reason behind it. gr.. well we wont ever know the truth, the only thing we have is the media, press and what people think has happened, which doesn’t mean it is necessarily true. *cough*.....

[BigBird]

Even though John Kerry and Bill Clinton are the best i think that it wasn't a fake but it was going to happen cause of his dad starting stuff.

[Jin]

Manslaughter said:

Even though John Kerry and Bill Clinton are the best i think that it wasn't a fake but it was going to happen cause of his dad starting stuff.

You mean the first Greorge Bush? What did he do?

[Tslenia]

THis is not the first time...American and Iraq had been at each other's throat...and I think....I can't spell that man's name had threaten the first Bush's life during that time or tried to kill him....I can't remember which

[BigBird]

Tslenia said:

THis is not the first time...American and Iraq had been at each other's throat...and I think....I can't spell that man's name had threaten the first Bush's life during that time or tried to kill him....I can't remember which

Basically Bush senior wanted the oil over there so he was starting shit with the Iraq's.

[Silent Star]

I don't believe that at all, I mean, what kinda maniac would blow up the pentagon and world trade center just to go to war? those movies are a bunch of rubbish in my opinion

[ghost]

No offense to you Link (sorry for changing the topic a bit here) but I seriously gotta disagree with you. I've never been pro-Bush. Anyone could tell you that. But at the same time, I know he's not a bad guy. I just strongly disagree with a lot of things that he does and believes. Despite all of the bad decisions I believe he's made, I don't think he's INSANE. I mean, seriously, purposely killing that many people in his own country?! That doesn't make any sense, no matter how much "proof" you have to back it up. And as cliche as this sounds, I'm gonna say it anyway, you really shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet. Just like you shouldn't believe everything you hear people say and you see on TV. To be honest, I really think Bush being behind it is a load of bull. I'd rather just complain about Bush's lack of common sense rather than blaming conspiracies on him.

[link]

aww man i like conspirsises

tahnks for all your opinions but i still belive what i belive and that cant be changed just the same as you belifes ;D

[The-Amazing-Me]

Of course it is real. George Bush behind it? What the hell are you thinking? No offense, or anything, but he is the President of the United States. Why would the very symbol of America attack himself? And if you think all those conspiracy theories are true, then maybe Saddam collaberated with Bigfoot at some point in his career.

[Roxas]

To be honest i dont see how two Huge buildings falling to the ground as for the president part i wouldnt hold anything against him but i am not sure if he is the right choice for president, anyone else would have been good but george is putting outr country in danger putting us all to war, what if it gets worse, this could turn into a world war from all this, but otherwise lets just see what happenes... oh and i also dont see how george is capable of comming up with such a great plan to destroy the twin towers over his whole life time, unless Santa gave him coal for christmas one year. Otherwise all of this is stupid

[segadragon]

Wow. You cannot be so 'tarded as to believe that George Bush killed thousands of Americans and planned the bombing on the Trade Center. That's... that's the dumbest thing, I'm sorry. -_-

[Aegisknight]

I, too, think that it's foolish to say that Bush planned the entire disaster to occur....

But, I ALSO think that it's EQUALLY foolish to suggest that a bunch of Central Asian mountain herders, with weapons from the 1970's, decided to come halfway around the world to fly a couple of 747's into some financial buildings "just to show how evil they were."

I should think that a bunch of American Indians would have more reason to blow up American buildings than a group of goat herders from Asia Minor!


But, if you've got a good reason, I'm willing to listen

[segadragon]

"just to show how evil they were."

Or maybe it was to protest our democratic government and freedom of religion? Maybe it's how we completely do the opposite of what their God believes and how we are, in their eyes (but in our words), the devil.
If Satan made a country, would we not bomb it?
They do not believe in freedom. They do not believe in 99% of America. We are offending their religion, so they attacked us. It seems justified to me.

[Aegisknight]

You DO present a logical answer, to some degree.

However......if they REALLY cared about countries having a highly democratic form of government, and a freely religious society, I can name PLENTY of better examples than our Christian-dominated Republic.

['forget that a christian fundamentalist is in our highest office, and many hold offices of Congress?]


If I was a muslim fundamentalist, and I hated democratic institutions, I'd probably do a lot more than just attacking a financial building, and crashing a plane into the un-occupied, reinforced [especially for a plane attack!] side of the pentagon

[segadragon]

They attacked two monumental buildings and killed thousands. What would you have done with their limited technology? And who is better to attack? Canada? I don't think so.

[link]

"Winning an argument on the Internet is like winning the gold medal at the Special Olympics. Even though you're the champ, you're still a retard."
This comes to mind now, heh man this thread is old.
To believe if George Bush did it or not doesn't matter anymore, not many can set out and find the real truth.
Just say what they believe from their own opinions isn't really enough, but you got to admit George W. Bush is not the best of presidents for America, hell you voted him back in which as they say.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Ahh but i can't say anything, Tony Blair sucks eggs too

[Aegisknight]

"They attacked two monumental buildings and killed thousands. What would you have done with their limited technology? And who is better to attack? Canada? I don't think so."


Have you ever noticed how America seems to have an ego that won't quit? Like, no matter WHAT situation they're in, it's...like a whiney teenager, in that it acts like everyone hates it [which, in turn, actually makes everyone hate them, because they're such bitches about it], and in that it acts like it knows more than everyone else, when in fact, that statement is stupid to such a degree, that no one around it feels like telling it otherwise.

""Winning an argument on the Internet is like winning the gold medal at the Special Olympics. Even though you're the champ, you're still a retard."
This comes to mind now, heh man this thread is old.
To believe if George Bush did it or not doesn't matter anymore, not many can set out and find the real truth.
Just say what they believe from their own opinions isn't really enough, but you got to admit George W. Bush is not the best of presidents for America, hell you voted him back in which as they say."


Don't go along with the demonization of the internet, dude.......

and it's not actually that petty, since I know Sega personally....if he were just some schmuck on a forum, I wouldn't bother arguing with him.

no one else can use that excuse [except icephoenix]

[link]

"Don't go along with the demonization of the internet, dude.......

and it's not actually that petty, since I know Sega personally....if he were just some schmuck on a forum, I wouldn't bother arguing with him."

dude i'm only joking, i know you know sega well
but don't you argue with him offline? about the same topic thats on here?

[segadragon]

I prove him wrong offline, since the debates are much quicker and easier to understand opposition in person.

Have you ever noticed how America seems to have an ego that won't quit? Like, no matter WHAT situation they're in, it's...like a whiney teenager, in that it acts like everyone hates it [which, in turn, actually makes everyone hate them, because they're such bitches about it], and in that it acts like it knows more than everyone else, when in fact, that statement is stupid to such a degree, that no one around it feels like telling it otherwise.

Ya, but... come on. It's Canada.

[segadragon]

Ever so on topic.
Why They Hate Us

[Aegisknight]

yeah, some New York Journalist knows EXACTLY what a society on the other side of the planet thinks of "us"......


I might not have complained if we had invaded Saudi Arabia, where almost every single one of the supposed "terrorists" were FROM, for crying out loud..........but, instead, we invade AFGHANISTAN......wow.

[[Xero]]

I'm not American, lets get that straight. Whetehr Bush organised it, or whether it was an actual Terrorist activity, I couldnt really care less.. I'm not trying to sound insensitive, or uncaring, or anything other than what I am; Apathetic to the events. Call me Selfish, Vile, Evil, whatever, I'm just here to copy and paste a conspiracy article I read a while back, and thought it would be appropriate here... Talk, discuss, debate, argue, whatever.. Just leave me out of it...

Link can be given, if requested...

In two speeches to overflow crowds in New York last weekend, noted theologian David Ray Griffin argued that recently revealed evidence seals the case that the Twin Towers and WTC-7 were destroyed by controlled demolition with explosives.

Despite the many enduring mysteries of the 9/11 attacks, Dr. Griffin concluded, "It is already possible to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, one very important thing: the destruction of the World Trade Center was an inside job, orchestrated by terrorists within our own government."

On Oct. 15th and 16th, New Yorkers filled two venues to hear the prominent theologian and author of two books on 9/11 give a presentation entitled "The Destruction of the Trade Towers: A Christian Theologian Speaks Out."

Dr. Griffin has continued to blaze a trail of courage, leading where most media and elected officials have feared to tread. His presentation went straight to the core of one of the most powerful indictments of the official story -- the collapse of the Twin Towers and WTC-7.

Dr. Griffin included excerpts from the firemen's tapes which were recently released as a result of a prolonged court battle led by victimís families represented by attorney Norman Siegel and reported in the NY Times.

He also included statements by many witnesses. These sources gave ample testimony giving evidence of explosions going off in the buildings. A 12 minute film was shown for the audiences, who saw for themselves the undeniable evidence for controlled demolition.

Dr. Griffin listed ten characteristics of the collapses which all indicate that the buildings did not fall due to being struck by planes or the ensuing fires.

He explained the buildings fell suddenly without any indication of collapse.

They fell straight into their own footprint at free-fall speed, meeting virtually no resistance as they fell -- a physical impossibility unless all vertical support was being progressively removed by explosives severing the core columns.

The towers were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 and 160 mile per hour winds, and nothing about the plane crashes or ensuing fires gave any indication of causing the kind of damage that would be necessary to trigger even a partial or progressive collapse, much less the shredding of the buildings into dust and fragments that could drop at free-fall speed.

The massive core columns -- the most significant structural feature of the buildings, whose very existence is denied in the official 9/11 Commission Report -- were severed into uniform 30 foot sections, just right for the 30-foot trucks used to remove them quickly before a real investigation could transpire.

There was a volcanic-like dust cloud from the concrete being pulverized, and no physical mechanism other than explosives can begin to explain how so much of the buildings' concrete was rendered into extremely fine dust.

The debris was ejected horizontally several hundred feet in huge fan shaped plumes stretching in all directions, with telltale "squibs" following the path of the explosives downward.

These are all facts that have been avoided by mainstream and even most of the alternative media. Again, these are characteristics of the kind of controlled demolitions that news people and firefighters were describing on the morning of 9/11.

Those multiple first-person descriptions of controlled demolition were hidden away for almost four years by the City of New York until a lawsuit finally forced the city to release them.

Dr. Griffin's study of these accounts has led him beyond his earlier questioning of the official story of the collapses, to his above-quoted conclusion.

The destruction of the three WTC buildings with explosives by US government terrorists is no longer a hypothesis, but a fact that has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Itís important to note that Dr. Griffin is one of many prominent intellectuals--including the likes of Gore Vidal, Howard Zinn, Peter Dale Scott, Richard Falk, Paul Craig Roberts, Morgan Reynolds and Peter Phillips--who have seen through the major discrepancies of the official explanation of 9/11 and have risen to challenge it.

These brave individuals represent the tip of an ever-growing iceberg of discreet 9/11 skeptics. Indeed, 9/11 skepticism appears to be almost universal among intellectuals who have examined the evidence, since there has not yet been a single serious attempt to refute the case developed by Dr. Griffin and such like-minded thinkers as Nafeez Ahmed and Mike Ruppert.

As for the general public, polls have shown that a strong majority of Canadians (63%, Toronto Star, May '04) and half of New Yorkers (Zogby, August 2004) agree that top US leaders conspired to murder nearly 3,000 Americans on 9/11/01.

How, then, can the mainstream US media continue to ignore the story of the century? Perhaps the best answer was given by Dr. Griffin himself in the conclusion of his talk, and is worth quoting at length:

"The evidence for this conclusion (that 9/11 was an inside job) has thus far been largely ignored by the mainstream press, perhaps under the guise of obeying President Bushís advice not to tolerate "outrageous conspiracy theories." We have seen, however, that it is the Bush administrationís conspiracy theory that is the outrageous one, because it is violently contradicted by numerous facts, including some basic laws of physics.

"There is, of course, another reason why the mainstream press has not pointed out these contradictions. As a recent letter to the Los Angeles Times said:

"'The number of contradictions in the official version of... 9/11 is so overwhelming that... it simply cannot be believed. Yet... the official version cannot be abandoned because the implication of rejecting it is far too disturbing: that we are subject to a government conspiracy of "X-Files" proportions and insidiousness.'

"The implications are indeed disturbing. Many people who know or at least suspect the truth about 9/11 probably believe that revealing it would be so disturbing to the American psyche, the American form of government, and global stability that it is better to pretend to believe the official version. I would suggest, however, that any merit this argument may have had earlier has been overcome by more recent events and realizations. Far more devastating to the American psyche, the American form of government, and the world as a whole will be the continued rule of those who brought us 9/11, because the values reflected in that horrendous event have been reflected in the Bush administrationís lies to justify the attack on Iraq, its disregard for environmental science and the Bill of Rights, its criminal negligence both before and after Katrina, and now its apparent plan not only to weaponize space but also to authorize the use of nuclear weapons in a preemptive strike.

"In light of this situation and the facts discussed in this lecture---as well as dozens of more problems in the official account of 9/11 discussed elsewhere---I call on the New York Times to take the lead in finally exposing to the American people and the world the truth about 9/11. Taking the lead on such a story will, of course, involve enormous risks. But if there is any news organization with the power, the prestige, and the credibility to break this story, it is the Times. It performed yeoman service in getting the 9/11 oral histories released. But now the welfare of our republic and perhaps even the survival of our civilization depend on getting the truth about 9/11 exposed. I am calling on the Times to rise to the occasion.

Dr. Griffin's speech given at the University of Wisconsin earlier this year, entitled "9/11 and the American Empire," was broadcast twice on C-SPAN.

In late September Dr. Griffin was asked to give expert testimony at hearings sponsored by Cynthia McKinney and the Congressional Black Caucus investigating the 9/11 Commission Report. He is currently Professor Emeritus at Claremont College in California.

[segadragon]

Did you source that? It's only legal if you source it.

[Aegisknight]

Isn't it your policy never to open up links, though?...........so why would it matter?